<VV> Flat Rate Manual debate

[Charles Lee]

First, yes I might, but I have not had the experience.

I gave the Audi mechanic (when I personally witnessed that the car was in
the shop for under an hour), not only charge the 4+ hours, but ask for
another hour to fix something that he broke, tat he should have known (and I
expressly stated as a possible problem : steel stud in aluminum housing -
that he broke !)

Then, if he told me my car was a POS, I would ask him to be more specific
(like someone here on VV called me "cheap, poor and pathetic") and tell me
someone I can use.

I live in Sunny SoCal, so no rust and no salt, and (nearly) all 120K was
highway driving.

http://www.yourbuyersinn.com/Cars/ZX2.htm (also links to my 1996 Probe)

Both are DOA at this time while I practice on my 1967 Monza

This is what started the "Flat Rate Manual" thread, to see if I can still do
a starter on a car that was driven through a salt bath, all boogered up,
with missing and broken bolts, etc, etc, but unfortunately after 43 years,
none of that seems to have slowed me down much ?

Also doing it myself enabled me to (a) diagnose the problem when a loose
heater hose cut through my axle when I first bought the car, and (b) replace
the axle on the side of the road after (c) finding one nearby on VV.

Re : "Is it worth it to a tech ... ?"

Yes, any good tech will look at the car and advise the customer what the job
entails.

This could be the real source of the problem - being too lazy to do this,
and dealing with it when it is no longer clear who did what ?

It also prepares the customer for a bigger bill when you show him (or her)
the broken, missing and boogered up parts that exist BEFORE the job starts.

The theory for a shop is to get the customer started on a job, so that they
are "invested" and are more likely to pour "good money after bad" when
they've already spent a lot to "prime their pump" (i.e. wallet)

It's not easy for anyone, but the ARD (repair shop) is the authority, and
the customer is reliant on the shop's integrity to NOT take advantage of the
customer's relative ignorance, to their detriment.

Yes, yes, I know that they are out there, and I'm still looking, so I'll let
you know when it happens (or you can come with me next time, if there is a
next time) ?

Charlie




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "BBRT" <chsadek at comcast.net>
To: "Charles Lee" <Chaz at ProperProper.com>; <virtualvairs at corvair.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 8:05 AM
Subject: Re: <VV> master cylinder R & R - Flat Rate crap shoot


> Charlie,
>
> I understand you have had bad experiences. I too have and have observed
> more. However, having said that, given an honest mechanic, would you
> believe him? "Uh, Mr. Lee, your car is a POS. Did you drive it thru a salt
> bath? Someone booogered up the holes. One bolt head is rounded off. Every
> fricken bolt I take out is frozen and I have to drill and tap a new hole,
> modify the fitting hole to take a larger bolt, dress the surface so it
> mates properly."
> "It is usually a 1 hour job but it took 7 hours with a 15 min break in the
> middle."
>
> Are you happy with that? Would you believe him?
>
> Is it worth it to the service tech to argue with every customer about how
> messed up his car is? You should see the junk that comes into a garage...
> often that the home shade tree mechanic tried to fix... A Fact:  New parts
> don't always work as they should; they leak, they are the wrong part for
> the application, the don't work correctly or not a all, or they fail soon
> after installation.
>
> Secondly, since you are in a consultant business, you surely know about
> overhead and how much it costs for insurance, unemployment costs &
> insurance, regular insurance, utilities, property costs including taxes,
> EPA/OSHA costs, advertising, specialty tools, modern computer upgrades
> yearly for multiple makes so the electronics can be observed to get you
> closer to the problem, and subscriptions to troubleshooting services. I
> asked my Son about helping a friend down here with his '90's something V8
> running problem. He said, "Dad, there are so many sensors affecting a
> reading on the OBD, that I can't diagnose it from the phone. The codes
> only get you so close. You just have to go thru it and eliminate the most
> obvious and usual suspects to get to the problem."
>
> Often the FMR doesn't include diagnostic time. Yeah, it takes 30 min to do
> a familiar job, but figuring out what to do takes?  That is why dealer
> techs throw parts at a problem - not defending them - and they get
> incentives for selling services... NOT defending them.
>
> If you consider restoration costs... by the hour, to do it right. Do you
> really think the shops are making a lot of money or the skilled techs are?
>
> Price parts for a Corvair engine overhaul. Price parts for a modern car. I
> don't care if the mark-up is 50% and you get it wholesale, it still costs
> a helluva lot of money to do something now days.
>
> Advice: Find a private shop. Find one that does good work, stands behind
> their work and TRUST them to take care of your car. ALWAYS  take it to
> them. Don't give them a hard time every time or over nothing.  Get their
> trust and they will take care of you. Easy to say, but IF & WHEN you find
> the shop, religiously use them.
>
> Chuck S
> Shade tree mechanic, race engine builder, carb modifications, select parts
> fabricator w/ machine shop, welding, and metal bending services.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Charles Lee" <Chaz at ProperProper.com>
>>
>> I would like to actually experience a mechanic who quotes a price based
>> on
>> expected labor time, and then comes back and says "It took less time so
>> I'll
>> charge you less."
>>
>> I do not want to hear mechanics who say they would do that "if it
>> happened
>> but it doesn't" because I'm fairly sure it must.
>>
>> Like the svc mgr at Fritz Ford admitted, easy jobs subsidize the hard
>> ones,
>> but that is just plain wrong, even if it does come out even eventually -
>> not
>> for the guy whose job was easier !
>> Plus, I'm fairly sure that they DO charge more if it goes longer, but
>> we'll
>> never really know, will we ?
>>
>>
>> Yes, I understand that there are honest mechanics out there and most of
>> us
>> are, but I would really like to meet one (who works on my car) !!!!
>>
>
>