<VV> Missing FC's HELP!!!!!

Rick Loving ral1963 at comcast.net
Fri Mar 3 20:28:17 EST 2017


Please clear one thing up....
 
In the VIN chart....1963 for FLINT Plant, the Month end VIN for July shows
115210 and the last VIN for AUG as 115211....
 
So...the last day of July 1963, Wednesday the 31st the 2nd to last 63 FC was
built.......then sometime after midnight and on Thursday Aug 1st 1963...the
last 63 FC rolled off the line.... creating the "only" FC built in the month
of Aug 1963..... 
 
or is there an error in the VIN's as listed....

 
Rick
 
 

  _____  

From: Rick Loving [mailto:ral1963 at comcast.net] 
Sent: Friday, March 03, 2017 7:08 PM
To: 'David Newell'; 'VirtualVairs at corvair.org'
Cc: 'spilatrs at marietta.edu'; 'Matt Nall'; 'Mike McGowan'; 'Rod Murray'; 'Ed
Bittman'; 'Harry Jensen'; 'Kent Sullivan'; 'Mark Corbin'; 'Bill Hubbell';
'Bob Helt'; 'Bob Marlow'; 'spilatrs at marietta.edu'; 'corsa at cox.net'
Subject: RE: <VV> Missing FC's HELP!!!!!



I am glad we are all on the same page in wanting to get the most accuate
numbers out there, updating our information, and preserving the Corvair
history.

I am re-vamping my original email as we kmow what is amiss...

In regards to the FC only 1961 (13 trucks) and 63 (3141 trucks) are
unaccounted for in the "Model Year breakdown" For 61 it accefts all 4 types
and for 63 only 3 models are affected.

Since I do not have the details that Dave does, I mearly determined what the
% to toal each body stayle was and extrapolated the "new" totals using the
same percentages based on the "correct" production totals from the VIN
charts.

This changed the follow model breakdown by the units highlighted in RED..and
added the missing 3154 units to the Total FC production counts.

Hopefully Dave will make adjustments where possible based on his
documentation.

For the car production...

60,61,62,63,64, & 67 are afftected... I noted that the defferences in 67
were directly related to the CDK units and started working towards
calculating "how" the other years exprts could have affected the Model
breakdone.

I had a hypothisis that the only affcted models would be the 4 door Sedans
in the year as they were the expoted models...I theorized that the numbers
somehow got double counted...where they were included in the original model
counts, and then rolled back in from a list showing the exports.  It was the
only way the "production" numbers could be counted higher than the VIN
totals....

So I made the similair adjustements to the sedan Model units based on the
variences between the overal production and the VIN production.  All changes
to "pre-existing totals are hightlighted in RED...

All in all only a few models from each year were affected....I am curious as
to how my exercise mirrors the actual numbers from.....

I have attcahed my spread sheet with what I calculated...(and pasted it here
below)....   

 

		 NEW SUGGEST

		 MODEL #'s

	

	TOTAL	                       1,827,933

	USA	                       1,779,006

	CANADA	                             48,927

	

YEAR	 MODEL	  TOTALS

	

1960	 Production	                           248,684

1960	 569	                            46,155

1960	 769	                          136,152

1960	 527	                             14,628

1960	 727	                             36,562

1960	 927	                             11,926

1960	 CAN	                               3,261

* Adjusted Sedan counts down 4,584 for Export Varience

	

1961	 Production	                           334,412

1961	 535	                               5,591

1961	 735	                             20,451

1961	 569	                            18,009

1961	 769	                            50,462

1961	 969	                            33,002

1961	 527	                             16,857 		1961
1961	 		
1961	 727	                             24,786 		REVISED % T
TTL	 	ORIGINAL % to TOTAL	 		
1961	 927	                           109,945
47,557 	% to total	 	     47,570 	% to total

1961	 R1206	                            18,493
18,489 	0.389	 	     18,493 	0.389	 		
1961	 R1205	                            15,812
15,806 	0.332	 	     15,812 	0.332	 		
1961	 R1254	                            10,790
10,787 	0.227	 	     10,790 	0.227	 		
1961	 R1244	                               2,475
2,475 	0.052	 	        2,475 	0.052	 		
1961	 CAN	                               7,739

* Adjusted Sedan counts down 2,972 for Export Varience

* Adjusted FC counts up for 13 missing units

	

1962	 Production	                           334,205

1962	 735	                               3,716

1962	 935	                               2,362

1962	 569	                                      -

1962	 769	                            34,468

1962	 969	                            47,159

1962	 527	                             16,245

1962	 727	                             18,474

1962	 927	                           144,844

1962	 967	                             13,995

1962	 927 S	                               6,894

1962	 967 S	                               2,574

1962	 R1206	                             18,007

1962	 R1205	                             13,491

1962	 R1254	                               4,102

1962	 R1244	                                   369

1962	 CAN	                               7,505

* Adjusted Sedan counts down 1,800 for Export Varience

	

1963	 Production	                           291,101

1963	 569	                                      -

1963	 769	                            20,456

1963	 969	                            30,889

1963	 527	                             16,680

1963	 727	                             12,378

1963	 927	                           117,917

1963	 967	                             36,693 		1963
1963	 		
1963	 927 S	                             11,627 		REVISED % T
TTL	 	ORIGINAL % to TOTAL	 		
1963	 967 S	                               7,472
30,109 	% to total	 	     26,968 	% to total

1963	 R1206	                            15,364
15,364 	0.5103	 	     13,761 	0.5103	 		
1963	 R1205	                            12,461
12,461 	0.4139	 	     11,161 	0.4139	 		
1963	 R1254	                               2,284
2,284 	0.0759	 	        2,046 	0.0759	 		
1963	 CAN	                               6,880

* Adjusted Sedan counts down 459 for Export Varience

* Adjusted FC counts up for 3,141 missing units

	

1964	 Production	                           214,003

1964	 569	                                      -

1964	 769	                            16,055

1964	 969	                            21,686

1964	 527	                             22,968

1964	 727	                                      -

1964	 927	                             88,440

1964	 967	                             31,045

1964	 627	                               6,480

1964	 667	                               4,761

1964	 R1206	                               6,201

1964	 R1205	                               8,147

1964	 R1254	                                   851

1964	 CAN	                               7,369

* Adjusted Sedan counts down 480 for Export Varience

	

1965	 Production	                           247,092

1965	 139	                             17,560

1965	 539	                             37,157

1965	 137	                             36,747

1965	 537	                             88,954

1965	 567	                             26,466

1965	 737	                             20,291

1965	 767	                               8,353

1965	 R1206	                               1,528

1965	 CAN	                             10,036

	

	

1966	 Production	                           109,880

1966	 139	                               8,779

1966	 539	                             12,497

1966	 137	                             24,045

1966	 537	                             37,605

1966	 567	                             10,345

1966	 737	                               7,330

1966	 767	                               3,142

1966	 CAN	                               6,137

	

	

1967	 Production	                             27,157

1967	 139	                               2,911

1967	 539	                               3,109

1967	 137	                               9,257

1967	 537	                               9,771

1967	 567	                               2,109

* Adjusted Sedan counts down 96 for Export Varience

	

1968	 Production	                             15,399

1968	 137	                               7,206

1968	 537	                               6,807

1968	 567	                               1,386

	

	

1969	 Production	                               6,000

1969	 137	                               2,762

1969	 537	                               2,717

1969	 567	                                   521

	

			Exported Corvairs	  	 11,589	 (34,875
total exported Corvairs from 1960-1969)	  	  	  	  	
			 	 Belgium	 Denmark	 Mexico	 S
Africa	 Swiss	 S America	 TOTALS	
			1960	 1,841	 171	 1,383	 405	 630	 384
4,814	
			1961	 616	 104	 633	 720	 554	 345
2,972	
			1962	 598	 18	 460	 184	 429	 111
1,800	
			1963	 337	 0	 0	 0	 122	 0
459	
			1964	 216	 0	 0	 0	 264	 0
480	
			1965	 336	 0	 0	 0	 224	 0
560	
			1966	 264	 0	 0	 0	 144	 0
408	
			1967	 48	 0	 0	 0	 48	 0
96	
			1968	 0	 0	 0	 0	 0	 0
0	
			1969	 0	 0	 0	 0	 0	 0
0	
			TOTALS	 4,256	 293	 2,476	 1,309	 2,415	 840
11,589	
			 	  	  	  	 *All Estimated to
meet VIN Productin Totals	  	  	  	
 


-----Original Message-----
From: David Newell [mailto:chevrobilia at yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, March 03, 2017 4:57 AM
To: VirtualVairs at corvair.org
Cc: ral1963 at comcast.net; spilatrs at marietta.edu; Matt Nall; Mike McGowan; Rod
Murray; Ed Bittman; Harry Jensen; Kent Sullivan; Mark Corbin; Bill Hubbell;
Bob Helt; Bob Marlow
Subject: RE: <VV> Missing FC's HELP!!!!!

Rick, Matt, Rod and all...
Thanks for bringing up this important and long overdue issue. Your sharp
eye, Rick, couldn't have had better timing for taming those pesky FC
numbers. Mike McGowan and I've been planning an article for the Communique
this year on just this subject. It's one of four pieces I'm determined to do
before year's end or whenever Mike and Harry retire. Which is when I'll bow
out, thank you.

The FC production numbers by year and model -- as published in The Corvair
Decade and everywhere else Corvair FC numbers have ever been printed -- go
back to the early 1970s when all we had were car numbers. The FC figures
were a huge gap in our knowledge. I'm the guilty party who requested them,
plus the 62-63 Spyder RPO and 65-66 L87 turbo numbers, from Chevrolet.
They've been reprinted a jillion times at least. We had no reason to
question 'em, nor did anyone else.

In 1988 I came across the month-ending serial numbers for each plant. They
were a revelation, but like you I caught the 1963 FC inconsistencies and
wrote a memo to file that flagged them as a possible "breakthrough" in
numbers research. But at the time there was nothing else to check the plant
totals against, much less cross check the original numbers supplied by
Chevy.

Eventually holy grail docs appeared, confirming that the Flint and St Louis
totals were correct and just how faulty some of the original Chevy-supplied
figures were. In my article I'll show how that was done and how the process
also corrected the '63 model production numbers.

Your observation about the 13 FC anomaly in '61 is well taken and right on.
But there's major goof besides that one. It'll surprise and probably dismay
you, in that it's taken me so damn long to write about it. But maybe you'll
all forgive this numbers weary old fart with failing eyesight and way too
much historical trivia to ever have time to explore.

So....help has arrived. I'll fix it. But everyone has to get on board and
spread the new figures. Rick, your questioning the old figures now should
help validate the new numbers. I've been worried that some folks might not
easily embrace the corrections. We'll need to spread the word so that
whenever anyone edits or reprints what they've previously published (with
the old numbers) they can fix it. It should be "official" CORSA policy,
pointed out on the web site, but I know that's expecting too much.

Here's to all of us who care about numerical accuracy. And truth in general.
Somebody's gotta get it right, 'eh? :-)

Dave Newell
History Editor, CORSA Communique   

--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 3/2/17, Rod Murray <rmurray at pittsburghpenguins.com> wrote:

 Subject: RE: <VV> Missing FC's     HELP!!!!!
 To: "ral1963 at comcast.net" <ral1963 at comcast.net>, "spilatrs at marietta.edu"
<spilatrs at marietta.edu>, "chevrobilia at yahoo.com" <chevrobilia at yahoo.com>
 Cc: "Matt Nall" <patiomatt at aol.com>
 Date: Thursday, March 2, 2017, 9:41 AM

 Hey rick,

 Seems like Steve Spilatro and dave newell might be good  sources to check
in with.

 Good luck w/ the project...count me amongst those that  appreciate thorough
fact-finding and numerical accuracy.

 - rod


 Rod Murray
 Senior Director, Production and Game Presentation  Pittsburgh Penguins
rmurray at pittsburghpenguins.com
 Office: 412-255-1906 | Fax: 412-255-1980 | Mobile:
 412-719-3449
 PPG Paints Arena | 1001 Fifth Avenue | Pittsburgh, PA |
 15219
 -----Original Message-----
 From: VirtualVairs [mailto:virtualvairs-bounces at corvair.org]
 On Behalf Of Matt Nall via VirtualVairs
 Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 11:07 AM
 To: virtualvairs at corvair.org
 Subject: <VV> Missing FC's HELP!!!!!


 Rick Loving / Vair Historian  needs some help!!


 His email is






 Does anyone know the "oldest" published model numbers for  Corvair Forward
Control trucks (and where those totals came  from?)?

 When you look at all the historical numbers for 1963 FC  production there
is a 3,141 variance between what has been  reported historically...and I
want to fix it!!!

 ...according to the Corvair Decade (not sure where Tony  pulled them) and
repeated across dozens of publications and  websites...here is what FC Model
breakdown for 1963 has been  reported.

 1963 Corvan = 11,161 Units
 1963 Greenbriar = 13,761 Units
 1963 Rampside = 2,046 Units
 ___________________________
 1963 Total Model Breakdown = 26,968

 Here is the issue,
 According to GM documents, 1963 plant production at St Louis  and Flint for
Corvair FC's was as follows..

 1963 Flint = 15,211 (Last VIN built)
 1963 St Louis = 14,898 (Last VIN built)
_______________________________________
 1963 Total VIN Production = 30,109

 So we have 3,141 Corvair FC's NOT accounted for in the Model  breakdown?

 Since FC's don't really have a "Body number" listed on the  Fisher Tag like
cars...can anyone think of a way to  accurately "correct" the production by
model information?

 Was the original "model" numbers derived from a % built?

 Summary...

 1961 Model breakdown matches VIN totals exactly at 47,557
 1962 Model breakdown matches VIN totals close at 47,557  model vs 14,570 by
VIN (13 more reported by Model)

 1962 Model breakdown is off by 3,141...and needs to be  revised...

 1964 Model breakdown matches VIN totals exactly at 15,199
 1965 Model breakdown matches VIN totals exactly at 1,528

 Thoughts?






 ral1963 at comcast.net










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