<VV> Missing FC's HELP!!!!!

Fri Mar 3 15:14:23 EST 2017

Hi Rick,
Thanks for taking such an interest in production numbers. I'd always hoped to clear up the discrepancies and did similar comparisons back in the '80s. All the time you've spent on the subject is much appreciated. 

The car model numbers are well established and from Chevrolet in the '60s and aren't based on percentages. They didn't include the FC numbers though, which came via Chevy PR when I requested them in the early 1970s.

I think the FC numbers will all be resolved with my article. The hardest part will be convincing everyone to alter the figures they've been publishing over the years.

The assembly plant totals include export cars but not CKD Corvairs. The latter account for most of the variations between the car plant totals and the car model production numbers. Publishing the CKD numbers from Bloomfield will solve most of the problems. I have those and could add them to my article as a side bar. Then we could see what variations still exist.

Thanks again for your input!

Dave

--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 3/3/17, Rick Loving <ral1963 at comcast.net> wrote:

 Subject: RE: <VV> Missing FC's     HELP!!!!!
 To: "'David Newell'" <chevrobilia at yahoo.com>, VirtualVairs at corvair.org
 Cc: spilatrs at marietta.edu, "'Matt Nall'" <patiomatt at aol.com>, "'Mike McGowan'" <mcvair at sbcglobal.net>, "'Rod Murray'" <rmurray at pittsburghpenguins.com>, "'Ed Bittman'" <ebittman at tampabay.rr.com>, "'Harry Jensen'" <corsa at corvair.org>, "'Kent Sullivan'" <kentsu at corvairkid.com>, "'Mark Corbin'" <airvair at earthlink.net>, "'Bill Hubbell'" <whubbell at umich.edu>, "'Bob Helt'" <BobHelt at aol.com>, "'Bob Marlow'" <rwmarlow at comcast.net>, corsa at cox.net
 Date: Friday, March 3, 2017, 3:21 AM

 Thanks for responding Dave, 

 I have about half of a very
 long email worked up regarding deviations
 between the Model Production numbers and VIN
 production totals for the
 entire Corvair
 line.

 I started with the
 biggest variance, the 63 FC production to get the ball
 rolling.

 I
 have broken down each year and total production for both
 cars & trucks, US
 and Canadian, and
 bounced them against VIN production to produce a variance
 list.  I see the biggest issues directly
 coorelating (and matching) with the
 various
 reported EXPORT vehicles over the years. 

 The 2 biggest
 questions are....

 How did
 the Model Production List get created?  Was it actual
 figures
 reported or was it calcualted based
 on percentage figures from GM sources?

 How did the Exported cars list
 get created for 60-64 era vs 65-67 era..(you
 will see why I separate them in in my next
 email.

 I would love to assist on working with you and
 Mike in resolving both the FC
 Model
 production as well as the car totals for US production.

 Rick
 Loving

 (I am adding David
 Trull aka Bigwave to this email list)...

 -----Original
 Message-----
 From: David Newell [mailto:chevrobilia at yahoo.com]

 Sent: Friday, March 03, 2017 4:57 AM
 To: VirtualVairs at corvair.org
 Cc: ral1963 at comcast.net;
 spilatrs at marietta.edu;
 Matt Nall; Mike McGowan; Rod
 Murray; Ed
 Bittman; Harry Jensen; Kent Sullivan; Mark Corbin; Bill
 Hubbell;
 Bob Helt; Bob Marlow
 Subject: RE: <VV> Missing FC's
 HELP!!!!!

 Rick, Matt, Rod
 and all...
 Thanks for bringing up this
 important and long overdue issue. Your sharp
 eye, Rick, couldn't have had better timing
 for taming those pesky FC
 numbers. Mike
 McGowan and I've been planning an article for the
 Communique
 this year on just this subject.
 It's one of four pieces I'm determined to do
 before year's end or whenever Mike and
 Harry retire. Which is when I'll bow
 out, thank you.

 The FC production numbers by year and model --
 as published in The Corvair
 Decade and
 everywhere else Corvair FC numbers have ever been printed --
 go
 back to the early 1970s when all we had
 were car numbers. The FC figures
 were a huge
 gap in our knowledge. I'm the guilty party who requested
 them,
 plus the 62-63 Spyder RPO and 65-66
 L87 turbo numbers, from Chevrolet.
 They've been reprinted a jillion times at
 least. We had no reason to
 question 'em,
 nor did anyone else.

 In
 1988 I came across the month-ending serial numbers for each
 plant. They
 were a revelation, but like you
 I caught the 1963 FC inconsistencies and
 wrote a memo to file that flagged them as a
 possible "breakthrough" in
 numbers
 research. But at the time there was nothing else to check
 the plant
 totals against, much less cross
 check the original numbers supplied by
 Chevy.

 Eventually holy grail docs appeared, confirming
 that the Flint and St Louis
 totals were
 correct and just how faulty some of the original
 Chevy-supplied
 figures were. In my article
 I'll show how that was done and how the process
 also corrected the '63 model production
 numbers.

 Your observation
 about the 13 FC anomaly in '61 is well taken and right
 on.
 But there's major goof besides that
 one. It'll surprise and probably dismay
 you, in that it's taken me so damn long to
 write about it. But maybe you'll
 all
 forgive this numbers weary old fart with failing eyesight
 and way too
 much historical trivia to ever
 have time to explore.

 So....help has arrived. I'll fix it. But
 everyone has to get on board and
 spread the
 new figures. Rick, your questioning the old figures now
 should
 help validate the new numbers.
 I've been worried that some folks might not
 easily embrace the corrections. We'll need
 to spread the word so that
 whenever anyone
 edits or reprints what they've previously published
 (with
 the old numbers) they can fix it. It
 should be "official" CORSA policy,
 pointed out on the web site, but I know
 that's expecting too much.

 Here's to all of us who care about
 numerical accuracy. And truth in general.
 Somebody's gotta get it right, 'eh?
 :-)

 Dave Newell
 History Editor, CORSA Communique    

 --------------------------------------------
 On Thu, 3/2/17, Rod Murray <rmurray at pittsburghpenguins.com>
 wrote:

  Subject: RE:
 <VV> Missing FC's     HELP!!!!!
  To: "ral1963 at comcast.net"
 <ral1963 at comcast.net>,
 "spilatrs at marietta.edu"
 <spilatrs at marietta.edu>,
 "chevrobilia at yahoo.com"
 <chevrobilia at yahoo.com>
  Cc: "Matt Nall" <patiomatt at aol.com>
  Date: Thursday, March 2, 2017, 9:41 AM

  Hey rick,

  Seems like Steve Spilatro and dave newell
 might be good  sources to check
 in with.

  Good luck w/ the
 project...count me amongst those that  appreciate
 thorough
 fact-finding and numerical
 accuracy.

  - rod

  Rod
 Murray
  Senior Director, Production and Game
 Presentation  Pittsburgh Penguins
 rmurray at pittsburghpenguins.com
  Office: 412-255-1906 | Fax: 412-255-1980 |
 Mobile:
  412-719-3449
  PPG
 Paints Arena | 1001 Fifth Avenue | Pittsburgh, PA |
  15219
  -----Original
 Message-----
  From: VirtualVairs [mailto:virtualvairs-bounces at corvair.org]
  On Behalf Of Matt Nall via VirtualVairs
  Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 11:07 AM
  To: virtualvairs at corvair.org
  Subject: <VV> Missing FC's
 HELP!!!!!

  Rick Loving / Vair Historian  needs some
 help!!

 His email is

  Does anyone know the
 "oldest" published model numbers for  Corvair
 Forward
 Control trucks (and where those
 totals came  from?)?

 When you look at all the historical numbers for 1963 FC 
 production there
 is a 3,141 variance between
 what has been  reported historically...and I
 want to fix it!!!

  ...according to the Corvair Decade (not sure
 where Tony  pulled them) and
 repeated
 across dozens of publications and  websites...here is what
 FC Model
 breakdown for 1963 has been 
 reported.

  1963 Corvan =
 11,161 Units
  1963 Greenbriar = 13,761
 Units
  1963 Rampside = 2,046 Units
  ___________________________

 1963 Total Model Breakdown = 26,968

  Here is the issue,
  According
 to GM documents, 1963 plant production at St Louis  and
 Flint for
 Corvair FC's was as
 follows..

  1963 Flint =
 15,211 (Last VIN built)
  1963 St Louis =
 14,898 (Last VIN built)
 _______________________________________
  1963 Total VIN Production = 30,109

  So we have 3,141 Corvair
 FC's NOT accounted for in the Model  breakdown?

  Since FC's don't
 really have a "Body number" listed on the  Fisher
 Tag like
 cars...can anyone think of a way
 to  accurately "correct" the production by
 model information?

  Was the original "model" numbers
 derived from a % built?

 Summary...

  1961 Model
 breakdown matches VIN totals exactly at 47,557
  1962 Model breakdown matches VIN totals close
 at 47,557  model vs 14,570 by
 VIN (13 more
 reported by Model)

  1962
 Model breakdown is off by 3,141...and needs to be 
 revised...

  1964 Model
 breakdown matches VIN totals exactly at 15,199
  1965 Model breakdown matches VIN totals
 exactly at 1,528

 Thoughts?

  ral1963 at comcast.net

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