<VV> Missing FC's HELP!!!!!
chevrobilia at yahoo.com
Fri Mar 3 15:14:23 EST 2017
Thanks for taking such an interest in production numbers. I'd always hoped to clear up the discrepancies and did similar comparisons back in the '80s. All the time you've spent on the subject is much appreciated.
The car model numbers are well established and from Chevrolet in the '60s and aren't based on percentages. They didn't include the FC numbers though, which came via Chevy PR when I requested them in the early 1970s.
I think the FC numbers will all be resolved with my article. The hardest part will be convincing everyone to alter the figures they've been publishing over the years.
The assembly plant totals include export cars but not CKD Corvairs. The latter account for most of the variations between the car plant totals and the car model production numbers. Publishing the CKD numbers from Bloomfield will solve most of the problems. I have those and could add them to my article as a side bar. Then we could see what variations still exist.
Thanks again for your input!
On Fri, 3/3/17, Rick Loving <ral1963 at comcast.net> wrote:
Subject: RE: <VV> Missing FC's HELP!!!!!
To: "'David Newell'" <chevrobilia at yahoo.com>, VirtualVairs at corvair.org
Cc: spilatrs at marietta.edu, "'Matt Nall'" <patiomatt at aol.com>, "'Mike McGowan'" <mcvair at sbcglobal.net>, "'Rod Murray'" <rmurray at pittsburghpenguins.com>, "'Ed Bittman'" <ebittman at tampabay.rr.com>, "'Harry Jensen'" <corsa at corvair.org>, "'Kent Sullivan'" <kentsu at corvairkid.com>, "'Mark Corbin'" <airvair at earthlink.net>, "'Bill Hubbell'" <whubbell at umich.edu>, "'Bob Helt'" <BobHelt at aol.com>, "'Bob Marlow'" <rwmarlow at comcast.net>, corsa at cox.net
Date: Friday, March 3, 2017, 3:21 AM
Thanks for responding Dave,
I have about half of a very
long email worked up regarding deviations
between the Model Production numbers and VIN
production totals for the
I started with the
biggest variance, the 63 FC production to get the ball
have broken down each year and total production for both
cars & trucks, US
and Canadian, and
bounced them against VIN production to produce a variance
list. I see the biggest issues directly
coorelating (and matching) with the
reported EXPORT vehicles over the years.
The 2 biggest
the Model Production List get created? Was it actual
reported or was it calcualted based
on percentage figures from GM sources?
How did the Exported cars list
get created for 60-64 era vs 65-67 era..(you
will see why I separate them in in my next
I would love to assist on working with you and
Mike in resolving both the FC
production as well as the car totals for US production.
(I am adding David
Trull aka Bigwave to this email list)...
From: David Newell [mailto:chevrobilia at yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, March 03, 2017 4:57 AM
To: VirtualVairs at corvair.org
Cc: ral1963 at comcast.net;
spilatrs at marietta.edu;
Matt Nall; Mike McGowan; Rod
Bittman; Harry Jensen; Kent Sullivan; Mark Corbin; Bill
Bob Helt; Bob Marlow
Subject: RE: <VV> Missing FC's
Rick, Matt, Rod
Thanks for bringing up this
important and long overdue issue. Your sharp
eye, Rick, couldn't have had better timing
for taming those pesky FC
McGowan and I've been planning an article for the
this year on just this subject.
It's one of four pieces I'm determined to do
before year's end or whenever Mike and
Harry retire. Which is when I'll bow
out, thank you.
The FC production numbers by year and model --
as published in The Corvair
everywhere else Corvair FC numbers have ever been printed --
back to the early 1970s when all we had
were car numbers. The FC figures
were a huge
gap in our knowledge. I'm the guilty party who requested
plus the 62-63 Spyder RPO and 65-66
L87 turbo numbers, from Chevrolet.
They've been reprinted a jillion times at
least. We had no reason to
nor did anyone else.
1988 I came across the month-ending serial numbers for each
were a revelation, but like you
I caught the 1963 FC inconsistencies and
wrote a memo to file that flagged them as a
possible "breakthrough" in
research. But at the time there was nothing else to check
totals against, much less cross
check the original numbers supplied by
Eventually holy grail docs appeared, confirming
that the Flint and St Louis
correct and just how faulty some of the original
figures were. In my article
I'll show how that was done and how the process
also corrected the '63 model production
about the 13 FC anomaly in '61 is well taken and right
But there's major goof besides that
one. It'll surprise and probably dismay
you, in that it's taken me so damn long to
write about it. But maybe you'll
forgive this numbers weary old fart with failing eyesight
and way too
much historical trivia to ever
have time to explore.
So....help has arrived. I'll fix it. But
everyone has to get on board and
new figures. Rick, your questioning the old figures now
help validate the new numbers.
I've been worried that some folks might not
easily embrace the corrections. We'll need
to spread the word so that
edits or reprints what they've previously published
the old numbers) they can fix it. It
should be "official" CORSA policy,
pointed out on the web site, but I know
that's expecting too much.
Here's to all of us who care about
numerical accuracy. And truth in general.
Somebody's gotta get it right, 'eh?
History Editor, CORSA Communique
On Thu, 3/2/17, Rod Murray <rmurray at pittsburghpenguins.com>
<VV> Missing FC's HELP!!!!!
To: "ral1963 at comcast.net"
<ral1963 at comcast.net>,
"spilatrs at marietta.edu"
<spilatrs at marietta.edu>,
"chevrobilia at yahoo.com"
<chevrobilia at yahoo.com>
Cc: "Matt Nall" <patiomatt at aol.com>
Date: Thursday, March 2, 2017, 9:41 AM
Seems like Steve Spilatro and dave newell
might be good sources to check
Good luck w/ the
project...count me amongst those that appreciate
fact-finding and numerical
Senior Director, Production and Game
Presentation Pittsburgh Penguins
rmurray at pittsburghpenguins.com
Office: 412-255-1906 | Fax: 412-255-1980 |
Paints Arena | 1001 Fifth Avenue | Pittsburgh, PA |
From: VirtualVairs [mailto:virtualvairs-bounces at corvair.org]
On Behalf Of Matt Nall via VirtualVairs
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 11:07 AM
To: virtualvairs at corvair.org
Subject: <VV> Missing FC's
Rick Loving / Vair Historian needs some
His email is
Does anyone know the
"oldest" published model numbers for Corvair
Control trucks (and where those
totals came from?)?
When you look at all the historical numbers for 1963 FC
is a 3,141 variance between
what has been reported historically...and I
want to fix it!!!
...according to the Corvair Decade (not sure
where Tony pulled them) and
across dozens of publications and websites...here is what
breakdown for 1963 has been
1963 Corvan =
1963 Greenbriar = 13,761
1963 Rampside = 2,046 Units
1963 Total Model Breakdown = 26,968
Here is the issue,
to GM documents, 1963 plant production at St Louis and
Corvair FC's was as
1963 Flint =
15,211 (Last VIN built)
1963 St Louis =
14,898 (Last VIN built)
1963 Total VIN Production = 30,109
So we have 3,141 Corvair
FC's NOT accounted for in the Model breakdown?
Since FC's don't
really have a "Body number" listed on the Fisher
cars...can anyone think of a way
to accurately "correct" the production by
Was the original "model" numbers
derived from a % built?
breakdown matches VIN totals exactly at 47,557
1962 Model breakdown matches VIN totals close
at 47,557 model vs 14,570 by
VIN (13 more
reported by Model)
Model breakdown is off by 3,141...and needs to be
breakdown matches VIN totals exactly at 15,199
1965 Model breakdown matches VIN totals
exactly at 1,528
ral1963 at comcast.net
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