<VV> Missing FC's HELP!!!!!

David Newell chevrobilia at yahoo.com
Fri Mar 3 22:17:54 EST 2017

Yes, I believe that single 8/63 Flint FC is correct. The Flint & St Louis ending serials added together exactly match the sum of the FC model totals in the latest internal Chevy docs I have.

On Fri, 3/3/17, Rick Loving <ral1963 at comcast.net> wrote:

 Subject: RE: <VV> Missing FC's     HELP!!!!!
 To: "'Rick Loving'" <ral1963 at comcast.net>, "'David Newell'" <chevrobilia at yahoo.com>, VirtualVairs at corvair.org
 Cc: spilatrs at marietta.edu, "'Matt Nall'" <patiomatt at aol.com>, "'Mike McGowan'" <mcvair at sbcglobal.net>, "'Rod Murray'" <rmurray at pittsburghpenguins.com>, "'Ed Bittman'" <ebittman at tampabay.rr.com>, "'Harry Jensen'" <corsa at corvair.org>, "'Kent Sullivan'" <kentsu at corvairkid.com>, "'Mark Corbin'" <airvair at earthlink.net>, "'Bill Hubbell'" <whubbell at umich.edu>, "'Bob Helt'" <BobHelt at aol.com>, "'Bob Marlow'" <rwmarlow at comcast.net>, spilatrs at marietta.edu, corsa at cox.net
 Date: Friday, March 3, 2017, 5:28 PM
 Please clear one thing
 In the VIN
 chart....1963 for FLINT Plant, the Month end VIN 
 for July shows 115210 and the last VIN for AUG as
 So...the last day of
 July 1963, Wednesday the 31st the 2nd to 
 last 63 FC was built.......then sometime after midnight and
 on Thursday Aug 1st 1963...the last 63 FC rolled off the
 line.... creating 
 the "only" FC built in the month of Aug
 or is there an error
 in the VIN's as 
 From: Rick Loving
 [mailto:ral1963 at comcast.net] 
 Sent: Friday, March 03, 2017 7:08
 To: 'David Newell'; 
 'VirtualVairs at corvair.org'
 Cc: 'spilatrs at marietta.edu';
 'Matt Nall'; 
 'Mike McGowan'; 'Rod Murray'; 'Ed
 Bittman'; 'Harry Jensen'; 'Kent
 'Mark Corbin'; 'Bill Hubbell'; 'Bob
 Helt'; 'Bob Marlow'; 
 'spilatrs at marietta.edu'; 'corsa at cox.net'
 Subject: RE: <VV> 
 Missing FC's HELP!!!!!
 I am glad we are all on the same page in
 wanting to get the most 
 accuate numbers out there, updating our information, and
 preserving the Corvair 
 I am re-vamping my
 original email as we kmow what is 
 In regards to the
 FC only 1961 (13 trucks) and 63 (3141 trucks) 
 are unaccounted for in the "Model Year breakdown"
 For 61 it accefts all 4 types 
 and for 63 only 3 models are affected.
 Since I do not have the details 
 that Dave does, I mearly determined what the % to toal each
 body stayle was and 
 extrapolated the "new" totals using the same
 percentages based on the "correct" 
 production totals from the VIN charts.
 This changed the follow model 
 breakdown by the units highlighted in RED..and added the
 missing 3154 units to 
 the Total FC production counts.
 Hopefully Dave will make adjustments 
 where possible based on his documentation.
 For the car 
 60,61,62,63,64, & 67 are afftected... I
 noted that the 
 defferences in 67 were directly related to the CDK units and
 started working 
 towards calculating "how" the other years exprts
 could have affected the Model 
 I had a
 hypothisis that the only affcted models would be the 4 
 door Sedans in the year as they were the expoted models...I
 theorized that the 
 numbers somehow got double counted...where they were
 included in the original 
 model counts, and then rolled back in from a list showing
 the exports.  It 
 was the only way the "production" numbers could be
 counted higher than the VIN 
 So I made the
 similair adjustements to the sedan Model units 
 based on the variences between the overal production and the
 production.  All changes to "pre-existing totals are
 hightlighted in 
 All in all only a
 few models from each year were affected....I am 
 curious as to how my exercise mirrors the actual numbers
 I have 
 attcahed my spread sheet with what I calculated...(and
 pasted it here 
  NEW SUGGEST   MODEL #'s TOTAL                      
       1,827,933 USA                      
       1,779,006 CANADA                           
       48,927 YEARMODEL TOTALS 1960Production                          
       248,684 1960569                          
       46,155 1960769                         
       136,152 1960527                           
       14,628 1960727                           
       36,562 1960927                           
       11,926 1960CAN                             
       3,261 * Adjusted Sedan counts down 4,584 
       for Export Varience1961Production                          
       334,412 1961535                             
       5,591 1961735                           
       20,451 1961569                          
       18,009 1961769                          
       50,462 1961969                          
       33,002 1961527                           
       16,857 196119611961727                           
       24,786 REVISED % T TTLORIGINAL % to TOTAL1961927                          
       47,557 % to total     
       47,570 % to total1961R1206                          
       18,489 0.389     
       18,493 0.3891961R1205                          
       15,806 0.332     
       15,812 0.3321961R1254                          
       10,787 0.227     
       10,790 0.2271961R1244                             
       2,475 0.052        
       2,475 0.0521961CAN                             
       7,739 * Adjusted Sedan counts down 2,972 
       for Export Varience* Adjusted FC counts up for 13 
       missing units1962Production                          
       334,205 1962735                             
       3,716 1962935                             
       2,362 1962569                                    
       -   1962769                          
       34,468 1962969                          
       47,159 1962527                           
       16,245 1962727                           
       18,474 1962927                          
       144,844 1962967                           
       13,995 1962927 S                             
       6,894 1962967 S                             
       2,574 1962R1206                           
       18,007 1962R1205                           
       13,491 1962R1254                             
       4,102 1962R1244                                 
       369 1962CAN                             
       7,505 * Adjusted Sedan counts down 1,800 
       for Export Varience1963Production                          
       291,101 1963569                                    
       -   1963769                          
       20,456 1963969                          
       30,889 1963527                           
       16,680 1963727                           
       12,378 1963927                          
       117,917 1963967                           
       36,693 196319631963927 S                           
       11,627 REVISED % T TTLORIGINAL % to TOTAL1963967 S                             
       30,109 % to total     
       26,968 % to total1963R1206                          
       15,364 0.5103     
       13,761 0.51031963R1205                          
       12,461 0.4139     
       11,161 0.41391963R1254                             
       2,284 0.0759        
       2,046 0.07591963CAN                             
       6,880 * Adjusted Sedan counts down 459 
       for Export Varience* Adjusted FC counts up for 3,141 
       missing units1964Production                          
       214,003 1964569                                    
       -   1964769                          
       16,055 1964969                          
       21,686 1964527                           
       22,968 1964727                                    
       -   1964927                           
       88,440 1964967                           
       31,045 1964627                             
       6,480 1964667                             
       4,761 1964R1206                             
       6,201 1964R1205                             
       8,147 1964R1254                                 
       851 1964CAN                             
       7,369 * Adjusted Sedan counts down 480 
       for Export Varience1965Production                          
       247,092 1965139                           
       17,560 1965539                           
       37,157 1965137                           
       36,747 1965537                           
       88,954 1965567                           
       26,466 1965737                           
       20,291 1965767                             
       8,353 1965R1206                             
       1,528 1965CAN                           
       10,036 1966Production                          
       109,880 1966139                             
       8,779 1966539                           
       12,497 1966137                           
       24,045 1966537                           
       37,605 1966567                           
       10,345 1966737                             
       7,330 1966767                             
       3,142 1966CAN                             
       6,137 1967Production                           
       27,157 1967139                             
       2,911 1967539                             
       3,109 1967137                             
       9,257 1967537                             
       9,771 1967567                             
       2,109 * Adjusted Sedan counts down 96 for 
       Export Varience1968Production                           
       15,399 1968137                             
       7,206 1968537                             
       6,807 1968567                             
       1,386 1969Production                             
       6,000 1969137                             
       2,762 1969537                             
       2,717 1969567                                 
       521 Exported Corvairs 11,589(34,875 total
 exported Corvairs from 
       1960-1969)     BelgiumDenmarkMexicoS AfricaSwissS AmericaTOTALS19601,8411711,3834056303844,81419616161046337205543452,9721962598184601844291111,80019633370001220459196421600026404801965336000224056019662640001440408196748000480961968000000019690000000TOTALS4,2562932,4761,3092,41584011,589    *All
 Estimated to meet VIN Productin Totals   
 -----Original Message-----
 From: David Newell [mailto:chevrobilia at yahoo.com]
 Friday, March 03, 2017 4:57 AM
 VirtualVairs at corvair.org
 ral1963 at comcast.net; spilatrs at marietta.edu; Matt Nall; Mike
 McGowan; Rod Murray; 
 Ed Bittman; Harry Jensen; Kent Sullivan; Mark Corbin; Bill
 Hubbell; Bob Helt; 
 Bob Marlow
 Subject: RE: <VV> Missing
 FC's HELP!!!!!
 Rod and all...
 Thanks for bringing up this
 important and long overdue issue. 
 Your sharp eye, Rick, couldn't have had better timing
 for taming those pesky FC 
 numbers. Mike McGowan and I've been planning an article
 for the Communique this 
 year on just this subject. It's one of four pieces
 I'm determined to do before 
 year's end or whenever Mike and Harry retire. Which is
 when I'll bow out, thank 
 The FC production
 numbers by year and model -- as published in The 
 Corvair Decade and everywhere else Corvair FC numbers have
 ever been printed -- 
 go back to the early 1970s when all we had were car numbers.
 The FC figures were 
 a huge gap in our knowledge. I'm the guilty party who
 requested them, plus the 
 62-63 Spyder RPO and 65-66 L87 turbo numbers, from
 Chevrolet. They've been 
 reprinted a jillion times at least. We had no reason to
 question 'em, nor did 
 anyone else.
 In 1988 I came
 across the month-ending serial numbers for 
 each plant. They were a revelation, but like you I caught
 the 1963 FC 
 inconsistencies and wrote a memo to file that flagged them
 as a possible 
 "breakthrough" in numbers research. But at the
 time there was nothing else to 
 check the plant totals against, much less cross check the
 original numbers 
 supplied by Chevy.
 Eventually holy grail docs appeared, confirming
 the Flint and St Louis totals were correct and just how
 faulty some of the 
 original Chevy-supplied figures were. In my article I'll
 show how that was done 
 and how the process also corrected the '63 model
 production numbers.
 observation about the 13 FC anomaly in '61 is well taken
 and right on. But 
 there's major goof besides that one. It'll surprise
 and probably dismay you, in 
 that it's taken me so damn long to write about it. But
 maybe you'll all forgive 
 this numbers weary old fart with failing eyesight and way
 too much historical 
 trivia to ever have time to explore.
 So....help has arrived. I'll fix it. 
 But everyone has to get on board and spread the new figures.
 Rick, your 
 questioning the old figures now should help validate the new
 numbers. I've been 
 worried that some folks might not easily embrace the
 corrections. We'll need to 
 spread the word so that whenever anyone edits or reprints
 what they've 
 previously published (with the old numbers) they can fix it.
 It should be 
 "official" CORSA policy, pointed out on the web
 site, but I know that's 
 expecting too much.
 Here's to all of us who care about
 accuracy. And truth in general. Somebody's gotta get it
 right, 'eh? 
 Dave Newell
 History Editor, CORSA Communique  
 On Thu, 3/2/17, 
 Rod Murray <rmurray at pittsburghpenguins.com> wrote:
 RE: <VV> Missing FC's     HELP!!!!!
 "ral1963 at comcast.net" <ral1963 at comcast.net>,
 "spilatrs at marietta.edu" 
 <spilatrs at marietta.edu>,
 "chevrobilia at yahoo.com" 
 <chevrobilia at yahoo.com>
 "Matt Nall" 
 <patiomatt at aol.com>
  Date: Thursday,
 March 2, 2017, 9:41 
  Hey rick,
  Seems like Steve Spilatro
 and dave newell 
 might be good  sources to check in with.
  Good luck w/ the 
 project...count me amongst those that  appreciate thorough
 fact-finding and 
 numerical accuracy.
  Senior Director, Production and
 Game Presentation  
 Pittsburgh Penguins  rmurray at pittsburghpenguins.com
 412-255-1906 | Fax: 412-255-1980 | Mobile:
 Paints Arena | 1001 Fifth Avenue | Pittsburgh, PA 
  From: VirtualVairs 
 [mailto:virtualvairs-bounces at corvair.org]
 Behalf Of Matt Nall via VirtualVairs
 Thursday, March 02, 2017 
 11:07 AM
  To: virtualvairs at corvair.org
  Subject: <VV> 
 Missing FC's HELP!!!!!
  Rick Loving / Vair
 Historian  needs 
 some help!!
  His email is
 anyone know the "oldest" published model numbers
 for  Corvair Forward 
 Control trucks (and where those totals came  from?)?
  When you 
 look at all the historical numbers for 1963 FC  production
 there is a 3,141 
 variance between what has been  reported historically...and
 I want to fix 
  ...according to the
 Corvair Decade (not sure where Tony  
 pulled them) and repeated across dozens of publications
 websites...here is what FC Model breakdown for 1963 has
  1963 Corvan =
 11,161 Units
  1963 Greenbriar = 
 13,761 Units
  1963 Rampside = 2,046 
  1963 Total Model Breakdown = 
  Here is the
  According to GM documents, 1963 
 plant production at St Louis  and Flint for Corvair
 FC's was as 
  1963 Flint =
 15,211 (Last VIN built)
  1963 St 
 Louis = 14,898 (Last VIN built)  
  1963 Total VIN Production = 
  So we have 3,141
 Corvair FC's NOT accounted for in the 
 Model  breakdown?
 FC's don't really have a "Body number" 
 listed on the  Fisher Tag like cars...can anyone think of a
 way to  
 accurately "correct" the production by model
  Was the 
 original "model" numbers derived from a % 
  1961 Model breakdown matches
 totals exactly at 47,557
  1962 Model
 breakdown matches VIN totals close 
 at 47,557  model vs 14,570 by VIN (13 more reported by 
  1962 Model
 breakdown is off by 3,141...and needs to be  
  1964 Model
 breakdown matches VIN totals exactly at 
  1965 Model breakdown matches VIN
 totals exactly at 
  ral1963 at comcast.net
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